This week’s Gaming Flashback is a major one, in particle for Gaming Podcast: World of Warcraft, as the WoW guild established by Derrick and Jennifer is well-remembered. For Paul, however, World of Warcraft was and is the source of some deep pain.
Along with the Gaming Flashback, this week’s news includes:
NCsoft might allow players to resurrect the City of Heroes IP
Sega accuses Gearbox founder of “doing whatever the f— he likes”
Free full-version Xbox One game trials coming for Gold members
Thousands of developers sign plea for tolerance in gaming community
Dev on PS4?s 8GB RAM: “It didn’t really change that much for us”
All this plus Listener Feedback and the Question of the Week: “What are the strongest memories of World of Warcraft that you have?”
0 thoughts on “Episode 360: City of Warcraft”
“No venerable game players.” *cough* Robin Williams *cough*, though it may be too late to get his opinion on this matter I do want to highlight his own daughter, another fellow gamer, bullied off twitter. I know personally a grandmother who’s at least 60 and as much as a gamer as me. So my point is that there ARE older gamers. Though they may be a minority and the majority may be the immature, the loud and obnoxious ones making the rest of us look bad.
I heard what happened to Anita and it is horrible what others deem as acceptable behavior. I don’t agree with everthing she says but that’s no way to treat a person with a differing opinion. Let’s face it the women have a point, when my daughter asks if she can play a game with a Girl lead and I have to struggle to find ones that AREN’t scantily clad or just sex objects, I have to give her a point. All she wants, and the rest of female gamers is to be represented by more then just digital sex objects and with real female characters.
When I see games advertized on various websites in the side bar ads with scantily clad women with over sized breasts that are barely covered, I know I am being pandered to.
I like to point out the Sierra games had several strong female characters and in lead roles. Like Rosella in KQ 4 & 7, Luara Bow in Dagger of Amon Ra and Colonel’s Bequest, Grace Nakimura from Gaberiel Knight, Elsa, Erana, Aziza all from Quest for Glory. The world didn’t end when it was revealed that Samus Aran was a woman in Metriod, why should we stop there?
I’m still waiting for a Co-Op Zelda and Link game Nintendo.
Your right about the violent reaction because I think the gamers that are showing outrage are the ones afraid their digital sex toys are going to be taken away from them. That isn’t what’s being asked, all that is being asked is for more stronger female cahracters to be show. For women to be accepted as People and not jsut play things, and why stop there? Why not have different races, nationalities, ideologies, sex pref, etc.
It’s disgusting that some of my fellow gamers are treating women and anyone different from their norm so poorly. I grew up feeling like an outcast cause I liked to play games and read fantasy novels. I was seen as a wierdo and I didn’t meet many female gamers at all during school. Once after school though I saw that there were many women gamers and it made me feel accepted and like more a part of humanity knowing I wasn’t some freak oddball.
So to see other gamers reject women gamers just boggles my mind. Do men who favor sports reject having women join in? Do men at car shows say “look at that fake car girl she shouldn’t be here!” It’s beyond my comprehension at all the “fake gamer girls” and calling every girl with an opinion a “femi nazi”.
It’s time for some boys who seem to be stuck in high school still to GROW UP already.
@Qotw: I loved playing WoW but it was an time sink of a game. My most memorable moments weren’t the raids or instances but the times where I was just hanging out with friends around a fishing pond or traveling through the air on my griffon. I also seemed to be one of the few human players who went and got a giant tiger mount from the Elves.
While I like superhero stories the fantasy setting is what does it for me.
Lori and Cory Cole, the makers of Quest For Glory had an update to their Kickstarter Hero-U. In it they discussed the issue about the hate toward females in games and players themselves:
“We have been very disturbed by the degree of hate towards indie game developers, and women developers and players in particular, on many web sites. Personally I think it comes from jealousy – The commenters want the publicity and success of the game developers without devoting the years of 60 hour weeks that it takes to build a game.
Unfortunately, a lot of this has come across in the form of hate towards women. This isn’t new – Roberta Williams got hate mail for featuring Rosella as the main character in King’s Quest IV – but it is just plain wrong. Games can be fun with either a male or a female protagonist as long as the story reflects that choice. Buffy the Vampire Slayer with a male Slayer? Boring!”
“Shawn Could Have Been Shawna
Lori wrote about why we decided on a male character for the first Hero-U game at http://www.hero-u.net/leaders/why-shawn-isnt-shawna/. I assure you that we will have female protagonists in future games and that we will ignore any resulting hate mail. 🙂 We are proud of the strong female characters we created in previous games, and even more of the ones in Hero-U.
We have also proudly added our names to an anti-hate open letter on diversity in gaming and the game industry at https://medium.com/@andreaszecher/open-letter-to-the-gaming-community-df4511032e8a. We hope many of our backers will continue to speak out against hate and harassment in any form. This week I learned a new term – SJW or Social Justice Warrior – used negatively about people who harp about social justice in gaming and media. You know what? We’ll wear that badge proudly. Our games have always been about heroism, and yes, that includes social justice.”
To summarize they were appalled at the hate, they signed the Petition against hate, and they revealed that Roberta Williams herself had received hate mail for Rosella being the lead in KQ4 and how DARE she save her own father.
I had no idea that Roberta had received hate mail for what was one of my favorite of the KQ series. Remember this game was Pre-internet days so it was easy to be isolated to my own POV on this game. I had already known about Samus Aran as female so I then took it for granted that there would be more of the like.
They also brought up the subject of the Sierra company revival, while they stated they weren’t involved they were also not against future involvement should something come up. So yay! 🙂
@All the things that are wrong with the gaming world
This debate has been going on for a long time and I am not sure I can add anything that hasn’t already been said. To be honest, I am indifferent to the opinions of the general gaming mass. They can be homophobic, sexist or even marxist for all I care; as long as they don’t cause other people trouble. What I find worrying the most is discrimination in the gaming industry itself. Mature, highly educated professionals who are often in position of power over others are the worst kind. They can genuinely harm the well-being of others with their discrimination and often do so. I would say sorting the industry out is a priority; trying to change gaming as a whole is impossible at this moment.
This all reminds me of the gaming “civil rights” movement of the sixth generation, which was fueled by the release of GTA: San Andreas. Many gamers pointed out that African-Carri beans were highly under-represented as the main protagonists. Not much has changed since then. My friend still complains when we play an Asian MMO and the only character he can make is a very attractive white male.
@All those lovely times I did not play WOW
My first time playing WOW was 2012. I spent weeks downloading the 32GB patch and when I finally played it I was lamed out. Since I played many many WOW clones beforehand, I found WOW itself to be very dated in comparison. I didn’t bother playing it past the first quest, especially since my friend dropped the game saying that Mysts of Pandaria update made it crap.
This article was published on January 19th, 2009 by me, about an MMO that never came to be.
With Ultima Online heading into its 12th year, and Richard Garriott declaring he wants to make a new fantasy MMORPG, its time to examine the MMO that never was: Ultima X: Odyssey.
Before any discussion of Ultima X can be made, one must examine Ultima IX: Ascension, a 1999 disaster that basically doomed the Ultima franchise, and ultimately, Origin Systems, Garriott’s development company that was purchased by Electronic Arts in 1992. Ultima IX was an ambitious, completely 3D game that promised to be revolutionary. For instance, when you shot an enemy with an arrow, the arrow would persistantly remain in the enemy; it didn’t help that enemies could withstand a ton of damage, so they often resembled chia pets with dozens of arrows sticking out of them. The attempt came at a price, however. The graphics engine was so demanding, large cities were villages. There were numerous bugs and glitches. Worse yet, the game was so divorced from the previous Ultima titles in terms of story and characterization that devoted fans were annoyed and turned off from it.
Ultima Online was released in 1997, and when it began to be overshadowed by graphically superior games that utilized 3D engines like Everquest, they began develop of a 3D Ultima MMO called Ultima Worlds Online: Origin. Aside from the new engine, UWOO promised to have parties of 20-30, presaging the online raids that World of Warcraft would perfect. However, the sequel to Ultima Online was doomed by its predecessor – Electronic Arts feared UWOO would steal subscribers from the still profitable UO and canned the development group, sending Garriott packing. Sony, on the other hand, had no such qualms about a sequel and released Everquest 2 in 2004, which was successful in eventually transitioning fans from the first to the second game.
By the time 2003 rolled around, an host of new 3D MMOs had been released, including Dark Age of Camelot in 2001, and Ultima Online‘s subscribership was dwindling quickly. It was clear Ultima Online was now a dinosaur in the MMO world, and it needed to be updated. At E3 2003, Electronic Arts announced their second attempt at an MMO, Ultima X: Odyssey. The reaction to it was immediately positive, as you can tell from the above video.
One of the deliberate challenges by the designers of the announced MMO was the name itself. Unlike Ultima Online and the aborted Ultima Online Worlds: Origin, Ultima X was putting itself in the canon of the series as a numbered Ultima; when rumors of Ultima X began, people initially thought it was to be the first of a new trilogy. The use of the “X” was seen as a bold declaration in another way: it was following the disastrous Ultima IX, putting the game in the same position that Star Trek VI did, having to follow the footsteps of a franchise-killer. Furthermore, this was being done without Garriott, the lifeblood of the Ultima franchise, for the first time.
In being the “next Ultima RPG”, the developers stressed that it would be more like Ultima than Ultima Online was. Lead designer Jonathan Hanna explained in an interview at E3:
UXO is also more heavily based on the previous Ultima single-player games than UO is or Origin (UWOO) was going to be. The Ultima RPG series is considered by many to be one of the best RPG series ever. Ultima 4: Quest of the Avatar™ and Ultima 7: The Black Gate™ are often listed in best games of all time lists in gaming polls. It is no accident that the franchise has continued for over 20 years now. UXO will hearken back to the legendary world first brought to life in those classic games as well as creating new twists that will appeal to both old time fans and those who have never played an Ultima game. (GameZone)
Even more appealing was the way characters would develop. The player would pick from six races – elf, orc, pixie, phoda, gargoyle and human – and use one of four Paths, each of which would allow players to buy skills from four different subclasses – a system later adopted by Tabula Rasa.
For example, the Path of the Blade includes Fighters, Knights, and Barbarians. Players who choose the Path of the Blade can select abilities (skills) from any of these Disciplines. In most class-based games you have to choose either a Fighter (a primary class) or a Barbarian (a hybrid class). UXO’s character advancement allows you to either focus on one Discipline or create your own hybrid class.
Player characters would further be affected by the eight Virtues that were found in every Ultima game since IV. Every mission would increase a player’s rating in one of eight Virtue, and gaining in Virtues would allow you to buy Virtue-specific equipment. Even more off the beaten path, a player would create additional characters, and if each of their PCs achieved the maximum in a Virtue, the original PC would become an Avatar.
Another interesting aspect in trying to create a more player-centric experience was that rather than players seeking out missions, the missions would come to the player.
The people of Alucinor will need your help and they aren’t shy about asking for it. Once you accept a quest, you’ll have the opportunity to make choices that will change the direction of the quest, the reactions of the NPCs and monsters, and the reward you get. So you don’t have to follow a predetermined story in order to succeed; you can actually role-play the various situations and create your own unique adventure. The choices you get to make are based on the Ultima Virtues, so there are no wrong choices. Just decide how your character would react.
So, the gamers who tried it out at E3 2003 loved it, and the developers had unique MMO experiences prepared, and a proven MMO license backing it. What went wrong?
On June 30, 2004, the following message appeared on the UXO website:
This isn’t an easy decision, but it’s the right move for the future of all things Ultima, including the community and the team. We look forward to sharing our plans for the future of Ultima Online very soon.
I would like to thank all of the Ultima X: Odyssey supporters who have been with us from the beginning. I hope you will continue to support the Ultima franchise and the development team as they transition to new projects.
Once again, Electronic Arts balked at starting a new Ultima MMO and chose to support the aged Ultima Online with new expansions. But why?
The chief reason was the sheer glut of MMOs being developed and released at the time – Ultima X: Odyssey would have to compete against fellow E3 2003 showcases World of Warcraft, Everquest II and City of Heroes. At the time, EA balked at losing their older property with a chancy new product that had different gameplay from its predecessor. An odd decision, as mentioned earlier, since Sony had no compunctions about replacing Everquest with a sequel – with more demanding graphics.
One must wonder what the MMO landscape might have been had UXO been released to compete with World of Warcraft and the other MMOs. What do you think?
Thanks to the New Hampshire’s “State of Emergency” it looks as if we’ll have to delay the podcast a bit this week. We have had no electricity in four days and continue to have to deal with lack of power in our day-to-day life.
Once power is restored and we’re back online we’ll schedule a time to record the show. Until then, we’re offline until the electric company gets to our area. Hopefully we’ll be on the power grid today so we can record in our normal schedule but that’s more of a dream than an ETA.
Thanks to the New Hampshire’s “State of Emergency” it looks as if we’ll have to delay the podcast a bit this week. We have had no electricity in four days and continue to have to deal with lack of power in our day-to-day life.
“No venerable game players.” *cough* Robin Williams *cough*, though it may be too late to get his opinion on this matter I do want to highlight his own daughter, another fellow gamer, bullied off twitter. I know personally a grandmother who’s at least 60 and as much as a gamer as me. So my point is that there ARE older gamers. Though they may be a minority and the majority may be the immature, the loud and obnoxious ones making the rest of us look bad.
I heard what happened to Anita and it is horrible what others deem as acceptable behavior. I don’t agree with everthing she says but that’s no way to treat a person with a differing opinion. Let’s face it the women have a point, when my daughter asks if she can play a game with a Girl lead and I have to struggle to find ones that AREN’t scantily clad or just sex objects, I have to give her a point. All she wants, and the rest of female gamers is to be represented by more then just digital sex objects and with real female characters.
When I see games advertized on various websites in the side bar ads with scantily clad women with over sized breasts that are barely covered, I know I am being pandered to.
I like to point out the Sierra games had several strong female characters and in lead roles. Like Rosella in KQ 4 & 7, Luara Bow in Dagger of Amon Ra and Colonel’s Bequest, Grace Nakimura from Gaberiel Knight, Elsa, Erana, Aziza all from Quest for Glory. The world didn’t end when it was revealed that Samus Aran was a woman in Metriod, why should we stop there?
I’m still waiting for a Co-Op Zelda and Link game Nintendo.
Your right about the violent reaction because I think the gamers that are showing outrage are the ones afraid their digital sex toys are going to be taken away from them. That isn’t what’s being asked, all that is being asked is for more stronger female cahracters to be show. For women to be accepted as People and not jsut play things, and why stop there? Why not have different races, nationalities, ideologies, sex pref, etc.
It’s disgusting that some of my fellow gamers are treating women and anyone different from their norm so poorly. I grew up feeling like an outcast cause I liked to play games and read fantasy novels. I was seen as a wierdo and I didn’t meet many female gamers at all during school. Once after school though I saw that there were many women gamers and it made me feel accepted and like more a part of humanity knowing I wasn’t some freak oddball.
So to see other gamers reject women gamers just boggles my mind. Do men who favor sports reject having women join in? Do men at car shows say “look at that fake car girl she shouldn’t be here!” It’s beyond my comprehension at all the “fake gamer girls” and calling every girl with an opinion a “femi nazi”.
It’s time for some boys who seem to be stuck in high school still to GROW UP already.
@Qotw: I loved playing WoW but it was an time sink of a game. My most memorable moments weren’t the raids or instances but the times where I was just hanging out with friends around a fishing pond or traveling through the air on my griffon. I also seemed to be one of the few human players who went and got a giant tiger mount from the Elves.
While I like superhero stories the fantasy setting is what does it for me.
A little update:
Lori and Cory Cole, the makers of Quest For Glory had an update to their Kickstarter Hero-U. In it they discussed the issue about the hate toward females in games and players themselves:
“We have been very disturbed by the degree of hate towards indie game developers, and women developers and players in particular, on many web sites. Personally I think it comes from jealousy – The commenters want the publicity and success of the game developers without devoting the years of 60 hour weeks that it takes to build a game.
Unfortunately, a lot of this has come across in the form of hate towards women. This isn’t new – Roberta Williams got hate mail for featuring Rosella as the main character in King’s Quest IV – but it is just plain wrong. Games can be fun with either a male or a female protagonist as long as the story reflects that choice. Buffy the Vampire Slayer with a male Slayer? Boring!”
“Shawn Could Have Been Shawna
Lori wrote about why we decided on a male character for the first Hero-U game at http://www.hero-u.net/leaders/why-shawn-isnt-shawna/. I assure you that we will have female protagonists in future games and that we will ignore any resulting hate mail. 🙂 We are proud of the strong female characters we created in previous games, and even more of the ones in Hero-U.
We have also proudly added our names to an anti-hate open letter on diversity in gaming and the game industry at https://medium.com/@andreaszecher/open-letter-to-the-gaming-community-df4511032e8a. We hope many of our backers will continue to speak out against hate and harassment in any form. This week I learned a new term – SJW or Social Justice Warrior – used negatively about people who harp about social justice in gaming and media. You know what? We’ll wear that badge proudly. Our games have always been about heroism, and yes, that includes social justice.”
To summarize they were appalled at the hate, they signed the Petition against hate, and they revealed that Roberta Williams herself had received hate mail for Rosella being the lead in KQ4 and how DARE she save her own father.
I had no idea that Roberta had received hate mail for what was one of my favorite of the KQ series. Remember this game was Pre-internet days so it was easy to be isolated to my own POV on this game. I had already known about Samus Aran as female so I then took it for granted that there would be more of the like.
They also brought up the subject of the Sierra company revival, while they stated they weren’t involved they were also not against future involvement should something come up. So yay! 🙂
@All the things that are wrong with the gaming world
This debate has been going on for a long time and I am not sure I can add anything that hasn’t already been said. To be honest, I am indifferent to the opinions of the general gaming mass. They can be homophobic, sexist or even marxist for all I care; as long as they don’t cause other people trouble. What I find worrying the most is discrimination in the gaming industry itself. Mature, highly educated professionals who are often in position of power over others are the worst kind. They can genuinely harm the well-being of others with their discrimination and often do so. I would say sorting the industry out is a priority; trying to change gaming as a whole is impossible at this moment.
This all reminds me of the gaming “civil rights” movement of the sixth generation, which was fueled by the release of GTA: San Andreas. Many gamers pointed out that African-Carri beans were highly under-represented as the main protagonists. Not much has changed since then. My friend still complains when we play an Asian MMO and the only character he can make is a very attractive white male.
@All those lovely times I did not play WOW
My first time playing WOW was 2012. I spent weeks downloading the 32GB patch and when I finally played it I was lamed out. Since I played many many WOW clones beforehand, I found WOW itself to be very dated in comparison. I didn’t bother playing it past the first quest, especially since my friend dropped the game saying that Mysts of Pandaria update made it crap.